Category: Geeks r Us
Hi,
Just wondering if anyone has tried the KNFB reader app. While the OCR is impressively fast, it will not read boxes or newspapers with much accuracy; disappointing:(
Nathan,
I have not yet bought it but I fully intend to. I just spent money to upgrade my iPhone from the 4S to the new 6 ... so I am going to cab it over to this place in Portland and sell my iPhone 4S and iPod Twitch 4th generation and pay for KNFB Reader Mobile.
I saw the AppleVis podcast and this is what I like thus far:
The Field of View report - will critically analyze the document position.
The tilt guidance - it will vibrate until you got the phone level.
This is the sort of technology that completely changes lives. I've been blind for nearly 44 years and, while we all find ways around things, there are always cases when a pair of eyes in a pinch is really really super helpful. This app looks like it will really solve a lot of situations.
Yes, it a hundred bucks. Yes, there was a time, not so long ago, when I could not have afforded it, due to home financial concerns. And yes, I think we need to find a way for fixed-income blind who have these devices to get it. I think this is a game changer, and for the price really good.
This KNFBReader business is like so many other things we run into in life now, in that it makes me pause and reflect what life was like for me even 20 years ago. no OCR, no Internet, no object recognition. It was all very dim then, nothing like the amazing and expansive universe we blind people now inhabit. And this software is just one more huge leap forward in that direction, in the pocket, whenever you need to read something on the fly.
I went on and bought it, even though I only have an iPod Touch Fifth Gen. I'm going to try to get the iPhone 6 soon, so figured it wouldn't hurt to go on and get this. It's surprisingly good, but there are certain things that I still don't have a lot of luck with reading. Scentsy bar packs are one of them. Of course, I can't take advantage of tilt guidance yet either.
How well will it work on a 5S? I'm sure it will work best on a 6 but I just replaced my 5S after it took a swim in my parents' pool. lol
I can see allot of uses for it. I am disappointed to hear that it doesn't read packages well but that seems to be a common issue no matter what app is being used. Does it do object recognision?
How well does it read the info on the back of books? I can see myself really using the heck out of this app at a library or bookstore.
DG it's gonna do fine on the 5S, not the 5C though. Your 5S has a A7 processor on board.
Below is what I was going to post when the system logged me out:
Anthony I haven't seen those Scentsy bars, but if they look like a lot of packaging / candy bar type things, I'm gonna guess: A camera with more megapixels, and better focus hardware, is going to do you better. Meaning, your new iPhone when you can get it.
Also, in the meantime, get a piece of printer paper or something whie, even a white piece of plastic, and put your items on that. Even a low resolution camera will pick up on the contrast better. I have never had sight, but I do understand how the hardware of the cell phone cameras works, at least on a basic level.
The iPod Touch 5th generation is equivalent to the iPhone 4S in terms of hardware specs. So it's a generation behind what they recommend if they are recommending the iPhone 5. Two if it's the 5S. There was quite a jump in technology from 4S to 5, not so much from 5 to 5S. You went up a scale in processors to an A7 for the 5. If I'm not mistaken the 5S camera works better than the 5 though.
In terms of VoiceOver crashing, yes. I have this with some apps now on the iPhone 4S. But the A5 processor is 3 years old, and if I remember right, the newer models have more CPU cache. Sorry to get all gooberdy goo with the technical info, but just trying to say. Some of the new apps, like KNFBReader in our case, on a 4S phone or iPod Touch 5th gen, is a bit like trying to pull a piano trailer with Mommy's little red pickup. You can do it, but it'll be a gutless wonder trying to get up the nearest hill. And "hills" when it comes to processing, are the threads, or things running separately, sometimes in background. This KNFBReader uses that VoiceOver voice to Play as well as VoiceOver reading. I've made my 4S crash using BlindSquare and I believe it's the same thing.
I don't want to jailbreak my phone to put illicit debugging code in and prove it, nor do I want to pay $100 plus borrow the Wife's Mac to debug through using XCode but ... I'm reasonably certain that process queue / threading problems is what makes these apps crash.
If you remember iOS5, the one where Siri was introduced, that's the one your iPod Touch and my iPhone 4S were really meant to be snappy on. Sure, we can run them on 7 and even 8 iOS7 was not bad, but even then I guarantee you there were ways I could make the VoiceOver crash. BlindSquare was one such instance, if not crash I could clog the pipes. Just have it playing its street announcement while someone texted you or sent something through the Facebook Messager. Not a total core dump or anything, but it would start getting scratchety and interrupt itself.
Anyway I'm just saying don't be discouraged, the new iPhone will do much better as it has the hardware to support it. Huge difference between the A5 processor you and I both have right now, and the A8 you and I are both going to have with the new iPhone 6. That's two major processor generations - there wasn't an A6 to my knowledge. The new one is not a quad. That's probably gonna come with the 6S or the 7. But specs I've seen have said it clocks at 2.6 GHZ. Also, it's 64-bit, which manages a lot of things much mor efficiently. I don't know how much exactly, on a mobile platform, seeing as I have not coded anything mobile since Windows Mobile, but the principle of the situation says yes, yes and yes, to greater efficiency with memory and process management with 64-bit.
Anyway, it's miles ahead of what you and I have now. More than speed, these processor improvements usually deal in better management, which, to a user ... feels like speed.
Here's a tip for your iPod Touch though. If VoiceOver crashes when it's trying to read the results of the OCR, see if you can turn off the automatic reading from the app. Then you'll just need to explore to find the text, but you'll be cutting out this secondary thread of multiple Voiceover voice instances.
I saw on their podcast the guy had Alex running, and the other VoiceOver voice was reading the text, the voice we both know. Stand-alone Text To Speech I have not programmed before, but it strikes me it could get hinky expensive with something like a VoiceOver already running, and the algorithms used to get the OCR. Also depends on how well processes go away and memory gets cleared when done with a task, or if they start reading it to you while it's finishing and doing housekeeping, something that would make the app feel a lot more snappy than making you wait.
Anyway, I'm not the NFB or their development people, and I have not seen their source, so just take this what I said for what it is: a SWAG, scientific wild-ass guess, from an average guy reasonably well-educated on the subject of mobile device programming. No more and no less. I should also add, I've never coded anything on Apple, nothing but Windows. I hear it said some of the crap you deal with on Windows you don't on Apple's platforms, but generally speaking, the principles behind what I said are universal.
Anything that is shiny and glossy will not handle well by any OCR, doesn't matter if it is an app, or some softwear. It doesn't mean it won't do it, it might reckonize it, or bits of it, but you won't get great accuracy with it. Same goes with news paper. Because of the quality of paper and ink they use...
I heard great things about the KNFB app, but i'm not sure the price tag of $99USD. I might consider it closely if i'm one who do lots of scanning, but, considering i have like 16 photos left from 20 free photos from TapTapSee, that shows how often i use it. lol.
Anthony, from all i read, i think you will do good with the sensor guidance.
I'm actually having some pretty decent luck with it, even though I can't take advantage of tilt guidance, since the iPod has no vibrator. I'm decent with the camera.
works fine on 5, 5c and 5s. I've tested it on all three thus far.
The scentsy bars probably have a crazy cursive font. If they're the same as they were a couple of years ago.
You might try scanning the barcode with one of those aps and labeling them that way.
Thanks for the info on the KNFB working on the 5S. Maybe if we get something worth writing home about back on our taxes this year, I'll splurge.
Using it on a 5S, and it works great over here. Very fast, and way more accurate than I expected it to be. I know it's pricey, but for me at least, it's worth the money.
Hi Domestic Goddess,
This app is very tood at reading the back of books, and even the inside of them. Great app; hope KNFB keeps supporting it.
I am in the market for this app, but would be running it for now on the original (2012)
iPad mini without retina display. Does anyone have experience running the app with iOS 8
on this device?
Any feedback appreciated.
It Didn't say anything at all about iPad support, just so you know. It didn't say anything about supporting the iPod either, but I took the risk anyway.
Yeah, not sure if the IPad would work, but seeing as how Anthony is getting results on his IPod, I am sure it would work.
I have that iPad Mini without Retina display, bought it at the end of 2013 from the Apple Store.
Anyway, it crashes the VoiceOver quite a bit in iOS8 and it restarts. That's to be expected with an older device and a major leap forward like iOS8.
So I'd just be careful to turn of the autoplay in the KNFB Reader app, just my suggestion.
I'm gonna fund mine by selling my 4S and iPod Touch 4th Generation.
Bought after a few friends did and I love it.
I have an ipad mini 2012 aka 1st gen model. I don't think i'll like to upgrade it to ios8. What being a older device, running I5 processer and that. I assume it will be like dragging a car with a bicycle...
Lol, probably, Joann.
I'm amazed at the results. I admit, I did use the Field of View Report quite a bit first when I did one of the Wife's ZipCar® reservations.
But just now, I got up from my office, went into the kitchen, took down a chip bag, turned it seam side down and squeezed off a shot. Not perfect, of course: the thing is very glossy. But it did say Black Bean, and it did say Oregon. Enough to know what it was. Way faster than the Object recognition apps.
Anyway regular print does fantastic, and I'm betting now I can totally sort the mail when it comes in. Also, when you hit the back button, it throws the results away for you, letting you use it as the pair of eyes I was hoping it would.
Haven't used the Batch Scan or any of that yet. And yes, I know it's manuals says glossy containers with logos "won't work" officially, but that is said from an OCR perspective and not a blind user. As just a ordinary average guy, it worked beautifully enough to tell me what the bag was, which ... what else can a working man want?
Thanks, Leo.
I can totally see using it for identifying stuff. I may ask for this for Christmas. One never knows.
Even on an iPod Touch fifth generation, I continue to be impressed.
I got this app and find it very useful. I have not ben able to read my mail in
months and now I can. It works great on books too. I haven't tried it much on
my scentsy things since I haven't had to have a reason to sort out my things
customers since I got it. I know it doesn't work on my minny testers for my
scentsy though. I can't seem to get anything to work for them other than
someone actually reading them to me.
I use an Iphone 5S on the latest update... it works...
It is a bit hard on receats but its possible. I can with some work scan the boxes
of my scentsy warmers but there is so much on there in different languages, it
makes it a bit hard.
I have used it to scan a ladies Ipad and it worked pretty well with her screen. I
was trying to show her how it works.
I have scanned some booklets and saved them to read later wich is helpful.
I added a trusted friend to my family share thing that they have now so she
could try it outbefore buying it and she has been using it in her colege classes
and says it works amazingly well.
It hasn't work with money for me.
I've read that iPhone 6 users are having some issues with respect to camera compatibility or something like that. I find it a bit sluggish on the iPod 5, but still works well enough in certain situations. I've had much better luck on the iPhone 5, though. This is all running iOS 7.1.2, as nothing works all that well on the iPod 5 with iOS 8, and I'm not upgrading my phone yet because of some braille display issues I'm having. Speaking of braille, there are parts of this app which don't work with braille at all. What happened to the braille literacy movement?
I confess I haven't tried Braille, only because I've been using it swipe 'n' go, as it were. Though there are some instructions on a box which I am going to try and see if it will read out.
I'm not always sure how near or far away from the document I should be holding the phone so it picks up the text. I've sometimes gotten the message, "No text found," after taking the picture, but I'm curious if that has to do with the lighting in the room, coupled with how i'm holding the phone in relation to the page i'm trying to read. I used it to read a stupid pamphlet someone left on our door, (even though there's a no soliciting sign), and it seemed to read that well enough, so it's just a matter of me learning to hold the phone right and having the right lighting to take a legible picture of the paper.
Use the Field of View report which takes a picture and lets you know how much of the document is visible.
Rule is 8 to 10 inches above the document.